iBuyer Real Estate Blog

What Does It Take To Be an iBuyer? [Podcast Episode 4]


What does it take to be an iBuyer

Visit The Portland Real Estate Podcast: www.portlandrealestatepodcast.com

TTM Development Company: www.ttmdevelopmentcompany.com

Transcript

SHAMUS: And, hi there, we’re live.

MERRI: All right. We’re live.

SHAMUS: We’re live, okay. Hey everybody and welcome to the ibuyer.com podcast. I’m your host Shamus Samerdyke and today we’ve got a very special guest. He’s been kind enough to come on and chat with us today and I’ll let him do his intro because he’s going to do it a lot better than I will, but he’s got his fingers in a ton of different pies, very experienced in the iBuyer marketplace itself, super knowledgeable and we’re really excited to have him. Tucker Merrihew, welcome.

MERRI: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You guys reached out a little short while back and I discovered that there’s this thing called iBuyer.com and there’s some guys behind it, so appreciate you and having me on the show.

SHAMUS: So just real quick before we jump in here, you want to give us just a quick, you know, 30,45 second rundown of what exactly it is that you do over at TTM development and some of your experience and background as it relates to what you guys are doing in Portland in regards to some of the iBuyers.

MERRI: Sure! We basically been in the iBuyer space, although it’s kind of this business has been in the shadows as we’ve talked about before for many years, but we’ve been doing this for about 15 years. At scale I would say in terms of like larger volume, for the past 10 years. So ever since the collapse of the real estate world happened in like end of 2007, beginning of 2008, we started kind of buying at scale towards the end of 2008 into 2009. So we’ve been doing that for about 10 or 11 years now, I guess. It started with Oreos foreclosures, things like that because that was the natural progression of a lot of the bad debt that was attached to these houses. They had to go through that foreclosure process to kind of be reintroduced to the market, but over time that changed as a lot of those houses flush through the system.

And so we had to change where it was that we were acquiring our product in order to renovate or just to buy and resell. And the way that we did that is direct seller marketing. So we started doing direct to seller acquisitions. About early 2010, and we haven’t looked back since. So we’ve been doing this basically providing sellers a way to easily sell their home, essentially trading a little bit of equity for ease of transaction and speed of transaction. We’ve been doing that for you know, 10 or 11 years now. But that’s basically what we do in a nutshell. And then of course we have our sticks and bricks machine on the other end, which is TTM development company, which takes that product and either renovates it, resells it or redevelop it and resells it, or just fluff and buffs it and resells it to an end retail buyer.

SHAMUS: Got you. Okay. So in for the layman’s, basically you yourself are an iBuyer, right? And that’s something we try and touch on and every episode that we can is, like you said, the business as you put it, has been in the shadows for, you know, years and years and years until all of a sudden now it’s got a name, they call it iBuying. But at the end of the day, people like yourself and other companies have been doing this for decades prior to it having a fancy name like iBuyer, right?

MERRI: Exactly, I mean, prior to this it was called “we buy houses”, now it’s called “iBuyer”. 

SHAMUS: That’s right. I remember the first time I saw one of those, what is it, the “we buy ugly houses” billboards, you know, I was like, what the heck is that?

MERRI: That’s the big, you know, 800pound gorilla in the room.

SHAMUS: Right. So now, your specific market though is Portland, correct?

MERRI: Correct. Yeah, we mainly buy just in the Portland metropolitan area and we’re actually even, you know, over time we’ve kind of niched down even more to certain parts of the Portland Metro area that we try and focus on. So we do a lot of our marketing to stimulate conversations with sellers in very specific pockets around the Portland Metro area. That’s where we want to do the majority of our projects. So we’re, we’re very hyper focused in where we market and where we try and acquire property directly from sellers.

SHAMUS: Got you. Okay. And now being that you guys have been in the industry for roughly 15 years now, I mean you’ve seen as it’s become more and more popular for real estate investors to get into the space and you know, “we buy houses” signs all over the place. And now obviously with the advent of these massive and institutional iBuyers, what have you seen in the specifically Portland market over the last, let’s say 3, 4 years as these iBuyers are starting to get introduced on a larger scale?

MERRI: You know, it’s been interesting. I would say it started with just a dramatic increase in, we’ll call it one man band type competition. A lot more individual solopreneur type wholesalers getting into the business or, you know, individual iBuyers we call them. I can’t say that all of them are wholesalers. Some of them actually want to buy and resell.

SHAMUS: Sure. But more along the lines of like the HGTV type of flipper, flop house flip.

MERRI: Exactly. Exactly, I mean, you know, a fixer upper spurred an entire generation of people [Unintelligible 05:21], you know, and they only see the fun part.

SHAMUS: Who defines you can flip a house in 30 minutes.

MERRI: Yeah, exactly. Um, and you know, it’s funny because we’ve actually been, you know, romanced by a number of different, networks over the years that wanted us to do TV, but we didn’t want to do it the way that they want to fit it in that shiny little box, mainly because I feel like this business is more entertaining than what it gives credit to, in a lot of those shows and so maybe someday they’ll do a show that actually gives credit to the parts of the business that are truly entertaining that they don’t show, but, who knows. Or either way, back to your question, it started with just a lot more competition from the solopreneur type, investor that got into this space. And more specifically in the last two years, it’s grown pretty dramatically to have a lot more institutional money, you know, bigger players getting into the space that are trying to buy at a very large scale in multiple different markets.

You know, we’ve got, you know, some of those bigger players here locally right now that are trying to buy some market share. We’ve been tracking a lot of their activity just to see, number one if they know what they’re doing yet really. And maybe they do and they’re smarter than we are or they have more runway to burn in terms of no cash to buy market share. But you know, we’ve been tracking most of the purchases and you know, their net negative on a lot of stuff. And I did read an article this week, you know, the Zillow’s new CEO came out and basically said that they’re not trying to make money actually buying and selling houses.

SHAMUS: Right. Sort of the ancillary businesses that they have with it, the mortgages and things like this where they’re actually, that’s where they’re making their revenue, right?

MERRI: Yeah. Which, you know, that opens a conversation. I think that that’s a flawed, model. To be honest with you, just because you know, it’s the market’s cool and people start to, you know, this isn’t such a invoke business. You know, a lot of the ancillary businesses that you set up fail. We saw this happen in the last go round. And so I think that it’s inherently flawed that thinking whether or not that thinking projects into the future and they remain thinking that way, I don’t know. Yet, it’s yet to be seen. But I think that the companies that will survive are those that truly figure out how to at least break even at scale, buying and selling houses as a standalone business. Whether or not they have some vertically integrated, other businesses attached to them, you know, that’s a good idea and they should but I think the buying and selling business has to at a minimum break even in order for the whole thing to work.

And at this point we haven’t seen the big players figure out how to do that and still buy at scale because that’s the challenge, right? If you have this big machine, you have all this money, you need to put it to work. And so the pressure is to buy, buy, buy, and when you’re competing against guys like me, competing against, you know, all the other influx of people that I mentioned, you know, it pushes prices up and in order to buy, buy, buy, you ended up having to be the guy that pays the most or I call it the game of let’s play who makes the least, right? When you start [Unintelligible 08:28] gets everybody. And so right now that’s the game they’re playing.

You know, I’ve been playing that game for a long time. So I know, you know, I’ve seen this movie before, I know how it turns out for the most part. But you know, it’ll be interesting. We’re in a changing time and I can’t say that I know everything by any means. And that, you know, my opinion is the correct one. But I will say that this is a very intense business, there’s a lot of moving parts, there’s a lot of work to be done. And so to just do this business, to feed ancillary and not make money with this business alone, eventually people will come to the conclusion that that’s not a great business model just having for 15 years.

SHAMUS: And you know, to that point specifically the fact that there, what we all assume is their core business is the actual buying, renovating and selling of the homes, not being profitable. Not only that, but they’re also sitting on tons of inventory based on everything that we’ve seen and the research we’ve done. You know, Opendoor at any given time is sitting on a thousand houses that they still own. And you know, I don’t know what their debt structure and things like that is, but I can only assume they’re paying every single month, they are paying every single month that they own these properties, right?

MERRI: Yeah. I’m accruing what’s going to be owed. Right?

SHAMUS: Right. So if they’re, let’s just take them as an example. If they’re not able to even, break, even let alone sell the properties on this, let’s say, you know, another 2007, 2008 happens. What do they do? What happens?

MERRI: It’s a big problem.

SHAMUS: Just go straight underwater, do they have to totally change their business model because it doesn’t appear that any of them are set up to handle the existing inventory during a crash lately, at least as far as I can tell.

MERRI: I mean, if they can’t make money with houses in a good market, then, they are you know, in deep doodoo, come a bad market. But you know, there was, I forget the name of the company. There was a number of companies that released like 2600 each, really started to branch out and build these kind of vertically integrated branches that were like loans, title, things like that. And as soon as that market correction hit, which is basically just a market slowdown, I mean it was a more exaggerated market slow down. But we are inevitably going to have another one. All of those vertically integrated kind of secondary, third tier businesses, they all closed up just overnight because they did not have a lot of market share. And just because Zillow buys a house doesn’t mean somebody’s going to use Zillow for lending. It doesn’t mean they’re going to use Zillow for title.

You know, there’s all these other people that you’re jousting with that are trying to have market share as well. And to be honest, well these people that you’re jousting against are pros. They’ve been in the business for a long time. They know how to get in front of the customer, they know how to connect with the customer, they know how to make the customer want to do business with them. And just because you hang, you know, your shingle that says Zillow above you, it does not mean that the customer wants to do business with you on those other fronts. And so I guess my point is, it’s going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. We’re in an era right now where, you know, companies are valued at extreme numbers that don’t make money. And the reason being is because they’re valued based on an idea. Once they start to make money, they can no longer be valued based on an idea. They have to be valued based on reality. And so at what point we crossed the line back into these companies being valued for what they truly are in terms of generating profit, I don’t know. Maybe it’s next year, maybe it’s three years from now. I don’t really know. But, it’s been interesting to see them get into this space that has so many moving parts that has, you know, there’s, it’s a big people business that they’ve tried to whittle it down, which to some extent, you know, I agree with the disruption and the simplification of it, but you can only whittle it down so far.

SHAMUS: Right! I mean, especially when you’re dealing with the kind of logistics that you have to on a day to day basis for a company that involves housing, renovations, right? I mean, you’ve got construction crews, you’ve got subs you have to deal with, you know, scheduling. And if you’re doing that at massive scale, I mean that’s a logistics nightmare. All Right?

MERRI: It is. And the other thing is, you know, you have to, and I know this because I’ve hired people for 10 years to help run this business. You know, you have to find people that know what they’re doing and then you have to have the head of each, you know, office or business as well that really knows how to place the capital, really knows how to, you know, value the product, really knows what they’re buying. I mean, I’m that guy for this business, right?

SHAMUS: Sure.

MERRI: But you can’t take the 10, 15 years of experience that I have in this market and hire somebody that has an MBA or otherwise to do this job well in the first two or three years that they’re doing the job. You just can’t, it doesn’t matter what kind of prerequisites they have. If it’s not running an iBuyer real estate investment business, they’re going to have some major screw ups and some major missteps. And so there’s just, that’s going to be another big challenge for them as well. And we’ll just, you know, we’ll see how long the investor money waits to get paid, you know, a return. That’s really what it comes down to.

SHAMUS: Well, you know, and it’s, and it’s funny because you mentioned something just a couple of minutes ago in regards to, you know, the race for market share. Right? So you know, my theory at least, and again to your point earlier, I don’t know if this is the correct theory, but it’s, my theory is that’s exactly what all of this is at this point for them. They can afford, you know, they’ve got you know more money than God backing them at this point to where they have that runway to burn cash, burn cash. They can continue to borrow, continue to borrow, all in an effort to capture as much market share as humanly possible. And once they get to a certain amount of market share and they can kick some of the other smaller guys out of the market, those start to fall off. You know, maybe that’s the game. Maybe, you know, once you get to a certain amount of market share, the rest of the unit economics start to work themselves out. You know, your margins go up slowly but surely the more you scale, you know, the more opportunities you have. I mean, do you think, that’s my theory, it’s a land grab, you know, for lack of a better phrase, it’s a market land grab right now.

MERRI: I mean, I think that’s the theory they have to operate on if they’re doing what they’re doing what’s right. I mean otherwise it makes no sense. So I mean there has to be a bigger why. I know that, you know, at least the why that Zillow CEO was saying, but yeah, I agree. I mean that’s the secondary why that they have to be, you know, operating off of, in order to justify what it is they’re doing. I don’t know, it’s an interesting time, I think that the industry needed disruption. I mean, we’ve been doing this for a long time, as I mentioned a few times here. But you know, trading equity for ease of transaction and speed of transaction is, it’s a necessary thing for some people. Like they’re more than willing to do it. So the service, you know, to equate it to a car, right? You can take your car and go turn it into a car lot and get you know, a slightly less price for it than you would if you went on Craigslist and dealt with all the Craigers and all the people coming over and tire kickers and people wasting your time. You know, you can expedite that process by taking a little less for your car, and a lot of people choose to do that, right?

SHAMUS: And not only are you taking less for your car, but you’re going to drive away in a new car for roughly the same payment, same day.

[15:36]

MERRI: Right. And that’s basically what this is to the real estate business. The challenge is there’s just a lot more moving parts and there’s not Kelley blue book, you know, to be able to give you exactly what a car is worth based on these metrics, right? There’s just too many things about houses to be able to do that. And I know they’re building algorithms to try and simplify as much as they can, but there’s more people and there’s more moving parts. And so it makes it much more challenging to do. But with that being said, people still value the service and that’s why we’ve been in business as long as we have doing this, you know, year in and year out. And you know, everybody that we buy houses from are very satisfied customers because we know what they’re engaging in. And everybody that then buys the houses from us gets an amazing house, has been renovated and it’s a turnkey product or new construction. So, you know, it serves a great purpose to society. But it’s just a matter of, you know, what is going to stick on the bigger iBuyer front in terms of how they run the business. That, I don’t know. It’s kind of a little bit of a mystery.

SHAMUS: Right? So to your point about, you know, providing a great service, I mean, clearly you guys have been in the game long enough and you’ve done well enough to the point where you’ve built up a reputation of providing excellent service. And to that point specifically, it makes me want, you know, the question comes to mind, you know, and for as far as the service industry goes, realtors, right? So in your experience, I’m sure you’ve dealt with realtors over the years, even when you’re buying directly from the seller, you know, they want somebody to hold their hand and make sure the paperwork is all up to snuff. They understand the transaction. They have somebody there who’s their advocate. Right? What do you see, how do you see the current iBuyer marketplace and space affecting how realtors operate going forward?

MERRI: Well, I’ll say this and this is going to piss some people off.

SHAMUS: That’s all right, bring it on.

MERRI: Realtors overvalue their service in a lot of ways.

SHAMUS: I agree completely.

MERRI: There is a niche of the market where realtor’s value is, you know, what they take in payment is a small percentage of what they are worth. But that niche of the market is generally high end and it’s when they have influence or they’re able to pair their brand with another brand to carry a higher price and sell quicker. That’s where their value truly lies. And we use that tool occasionally when we do our multimillion dollar spec homes. But when you’re talking about, you know, meat and potatoes, entry level, median price point, things like that, right?

SHAMUS: $160,000, you know, copy and paste, track home.

MERRI: Right! Which is inside the, as we talked about before, the buying box of a lot of the iBuyers. You know, there really isn’t a ton of extra value that one realtor brings over another other than they’re just a normal human being and not a complete pain in the ass to deal with. Right?

SHAMUS: They’re likable, you know, ones like the ones now, you’re going to get the likable guy.

MERRI: Exactly. So you know, for us, like just for example, I’ll show you some here.

SHAMUS: Okay. Oh, for those of you listening, he’s reaching over to the back and what do we got there?

MERRI: See this here, this is a scarf, right?

SHAMUS: Okay, it’s a scarf.

MERRI: We’re buying a house from a woman right now we’re on a contract with. She knitted this scarf for me. She knitted another scarf for my acquisition in the room next door. And the reason being is because we are her advocate to get through this situation, right, or this transaction. She doesn’t need a realtor to be her advocate. We are, we explained to her the process. We explained to her how we work. We explained to her the contract, we connect all the dots for her. We basically, you know, we take what people think is a daunting over complicated process and we simplify it and we then explain it to them and we walk them through it. And that’s, you know, we take them all the way through the transaction and we’re not a realtor  but we know exactly, I mean, Chris is my acquisitions manager, but he’s not acting in a realtor capacity when we do this.

But it’s really a simple process. And so I think a lot of times it gets over complicated for the sake of job security, you know, personally on the realtor side.

SHAMUS: The more complicated they can make it seem, the more you need somebody, you feel that you need somebody to hold your hand. Right? 

MERRI: Right. And I mean, just to further show that point, I mean the MLS contract for our areas like 18 pages, the contract that we use to purchase property is one page, you know, and it still has all of the protections and all of the out causes and everything that is necessary for any real estate transaction. But it’s one page, you know, it’s very simple. And so yeah, I think to some extent over complication of the transaction is job security for realtors. But you know, they do serve a function because a lot of society feels like they need to use a normal channel in order to do things. Right?

SHAMUS: Sure.

MERRI: I do think that their function is going to change over time and what it changes to exactly, I don’t know but it will change. And you know, the other thing I’ll say about it real quick because I say this a lot, but I think it falls on deaf ears. Selling real estate as an agent, let’s just equate it to like a Ferrari salesman, right? The Ferrari salesman knows, or even let’s say it’s a Kia salesman, right? Well it doesn’t matter. The salesman is telling you that Kia Sorento or that brand new Ferrari knows everything about those cars, right? They know all the features, they know everything about the engine, they know everything. Real estate is one of the very few professions where the person actually selling it can know nothing about the actual product itself. They can really give the square footage, the bed bath count and tell you the schools, but they know nothing about the construction. They know nothing about any of the updates. They know nothing about that and how that actually factors into the true value of that asset or what you think as a buyer will ultimately have to inherit as an update cost at some point in the future. They know very little about that and I think that’s going to be the biggest downfall. And that’s why realtors will be replaced at some point to some extent because they’re basically handing off paper, they’re taking paper and they’re handing it off and there’s a little bit of human interaction in the middle, but they’re not really bringing a whole lot as a whole. There are some that are very smart, know what they’re doing and know, you know, markets and values and things like this. But as a whole, most of them know nothing about the product that they’re selling. And I think that’s a big, big void that ultimately that’s going to be the reason why they get replaced to some extent.

SHAMUS: You know, it’s funny, a very good friend of mine, we talk about this pretty regularly and he’s a realtor. Now he’s a luxury realtor, so he tends to deal with higher valued homes, things that nature, he typically doesn’t touch it if it’s under $1 million, but you know, he cut his teeth on entry level, first time home buyers. That was his specialty for years. And we were having a discussion the other night and he told me something that just kind of like hit me. He was like, you know, I honestly feel, because he’s got a few agents that now work under him at his brokerage. He’s like, I honestly feel that, you know, today’s realtor is becoming a glorified Uber driver. And it took me a second before I realized that’s basically it. You know, what does it, I believe the statistic is something like 93% of all home buyers have already found their home somewhere on the internet and have sent it to the realtor and said, can you get me in to see this property, right? And they drive them there. They walk them around and again, to your point, they can tell you the beds, baths, square footage. But you know, and when he said, it just hit me there, you know, becoming glorified Uber drivers. I was just like wow.

MERRI: There’s going to be very few that walk in a house and say, okay, has any of the plumbing been updated? Has any of the electrical been updated? Oh, it’s got a sunken living room that’s probably going to hurt you on the resale end at some point. They’re not, they’re like, well, what do you think? Right? Do you like it? Does it speak to you?

SHAMUS: How’s the color on the walls? Is it warm?

MERRI: And that’s not all of them. I mean, I’m not trying to lump them all into one category, but there’s enough of them in that category that I think ultimately it leaves the industry right for disruption to some extent. And you know, ultimately what that becomes you know, we’ll see. But yeah, when you have people selling a product that really know nothing about the actual sticks and bricks product itself, it’s just makes you scratch your head sometimes. And I’ve run across it over and over and over again over the years and I just, I don’t know, it’ll be interesting, but I will tell you this, they hate the iBuyer space. And it’s funny because it’s like none of them actually knew that we as in what we do here at TTM existed. Like we’ve been doing it for a decade, right? At scale, but all of a sudden now they’re like, Oh my God, this is the, they’re horrible. You know, all these people are losing money. It’s like, we’ve been doing this forever. This whole underbelly of the real estate world has been happening right under your feet. You didn’t even know it. Which also is scary because it’s like, well, geez, you guys are supposed to be the real estate quote unquote experts and you don’t even know what’s going on under your own feet or you only know the retail market that you see, right? Where the retail market is only part of the entire market. It’s a very small, you know, it’s a big part, but it’s just part of the market.

SHAMUS: Right.

MERRI: So it’s interesting man. I don’t know, we’ll see what happens, but every time an iBuyer post is brought up on a realtor forum on Facebook or otherwise, it’s just the venom comes out.

SHAMUS: Yeah. It’s almost akin to hate speech at this point.

MERRI: I would say yes, very close.

SHAMUS: Yeah. So let me ask you, in your market, in Portland, have you gotten a chance to deal directly with any of the larger iBuyers out there because I’m pretty sure what Opendoor and OfferPad are both but is not there yet. But both Offerpad and Opendoor are, correct? 

MERRI: I believe so. I have not seen any Offerpad properties go back to market on a resale side. We have seen a number of Opendoor properties that we’ve, you know, either looked at because their comps are on the market in an area where we’re doing a project as well. From what we can tell, I might’ve mentioned this to you before, but the average, I would say collectively of you know, somewhere around 10 or 12 properties that we’ve kind of profiled and we’ve done it for our local show too. That’s why I know that. They look like they’re losing on average about $40,000 per property. So that’s why I say there’s, you know, they’re paying a lot for market share right now. And I realized that the way that their fee structure works and how they make money and things like that on the transaction, it’s not just, you know, buy price sale price, but, you know, there definitely there’s a cost to entering the market here.

And I don’t know what their numbers look like in other markets because I haven’t been tracking those. Necessarily, I’ve just, you know, Zillow’s obviously reported their quarterly numbers as a whole, but which, you know, don’t look great. They’re trending in a better direction from what I’ve read, you know, a couple of days ago, but they’re still not great. But you know, Opendoor has definitely not figured out how to make money with this yet and that’s the other thing, with Opendoor, I don’t know, you know, if their ultimate business model is going to mimic Zillow or if it’s going to be different because you know, there might be a divergence there in terms of what each of these iBuyers are really trying to accomplish. They’re starting with the same, you know, premise, which is we want to allow people to speed up and expedite the sales process while trading a little bit of equity to do that. But what they ultimately want to accomplish in the end, I don’t know. I mean, I’m not sure if Opendoor wants to have all these ancillary or secondary businesses that they can vertically integrate with the core business, I don’t know. Hopefully they have a bigger plan because, you know, losing on average 40 grand a house here locally from just all the ones that I looked at. It makes you wonder, just like we talked about before.

SHAMUS: Yeah. And you know, coming from the investment side of the business on our end as well in my background, it almost makes your skin crawl a little bit to hear that. Losing 40 grand a house, times a thousand.

MERRI: I mean, we would be out of business long ago, you wouldn’t be talking to me on this show. If we had more than two of those on any given year, you know, so, you know, and we have, you know, it’s not to say that we’re Bulletproof because we’ve lost money on houses before too. So, you know, I’m not going to sit here and say I’m going to sigh and I know everything and I never make a mistake when we buy houses. But you know, we’ve lost a couple, one this year. We actually bought a house that had a church behind us and in the process of building a new home there, that church sold and they built a 40 unit apartment complex right behind us. So that dramatically affected the quality of our home. And we ended up losing, you know, somewhere around 20-$30,000 on that house, which, you know, we got out of it and we sold it. But, you know. We’re not totally immune to that as well. But if we lost money at scale, we definitely wouldn’t be in business. I wouldn’t be giving jobs to people and the capital that I’d be using would be pretty upset with me. That’s for sure.

SHAMUS: Yeah. Well listen, Tucker, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show today and chat with me. We try not to let it go too long, you know, so people in their busy lives can get a chance to actually hear it to the end. So the last thing I just want to have you do, if you could maybe let people know if they want some more information about yourself, your company TTM, also your podcast that you do. You have two, correct? You have your Portland podcast and your other more national podcasts. So if you just want to let everybody know where they can find out more information about you and maybe even reach out if they’ve got questions or maybe they’re interested in selling their home to you.

MERRI: For sure. You know, our sticks and bricks company as I call it, the one that actually buys and sells houses every day is called TTM Development Company. It’s here, local in the Portland area. You can go to ttmdevelopmentcompany.com. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram. We’ve got pages there as well. And there is contact us pages, you can reach out to us. If you’re interested about the Portland market or just want to follow along kind of our, you know, whatever crazy stuff is happening here in Portlandia, you can go on iTunes or Google play. You can search the Portland real estate podcast. I’m a cohost, well, I’m the host. I’ve got a cohost who’s actually a realtor. I bashed real as you saw out on the show, but he’s one of the co-owners of the biggest brokerage here in Oregon.

And so, you know, it’s a good kind of compare and contrast opinions on different topics. And so he’s my co-host on that show. And then if you’re into just more of the investment side, we have a national show called the Real Dealz podcast and it’s deals with a Z. We’ve been doing that podcast for six and a half years or so. We’ve got about 300 episodes out there and we’ve covered everything that has to do with the investment side of the business and you can find that on iTunes or Google play as well. And of course you can find me on Facebook. I’m on Instagram too, but probably Facebook, I’m the most active since that’s where most real estate people are. You can just click or Merrihew and you know, you can follow along and check out our projects and see all the crazy stuff that we do.

SHAMUS: Perfect. And of course, as always, we’ll put everything in the show notes for you guys to go and check out for yourselves. So Tucker, I very much appreciate you coming on and chatting with us today. I look forward to talking to you again. I’m sure we’re going to try and have you guys back on, probably here shortly. And who knows? Maybe I’ll even take a Gander at yours.

MERRI: Yeah, maybe or maybe I’ll be an iBuyer on the platform, who knows. 

SHAMUS: Hey listen, I’m not even kidding. Let’s talk after about that.

MERRI: Okay SHAMUS: All right. Guys, thank you. As always, thank you so much for listening. This is Shamus Samerdyke for iBuyer.com signing off. Bye.